Ely Winkler, a graduate of YU and one of the men in the “It Gets Better: JQY” video, gave the Beacon an interview about his experiences as a gay man in the Orthodox world.
Beacon: When did you first realize you were gay? How did you feel?
Ely : Around the time of puberty, when most boys realize their attraction towards members of the opposite sex, I began feeling attraction towards members of the same sex. I didn’t really understand what it was at the time and basically did what I could to ignore it.
Beacon: Were there any people you confided in? How did they react?
Ely: There were a few friends over the course of high school I confided in. Many, at such a young age, had trouble understanding it and told me it was probably just a phase and I shouldn’t worry about it too much. Others were more supportive, telling me that no matter how much of a struggle it was, that I would in time learn to handle it. And I did.
Beacon: What was it like for you to attend an Orthodox high school, knowing you were gay?
Ely: I wouldn’t say I knew I was gay in high school, but I definitely knew I was struggling with sexuality. In an all male yeshiva high school, surrounded by peers who I had crushes on and never being able to talk about relationships unless it was heterosexual, did not make life easy. This kept me in the closet for high school, and the emphasis on heteronormativity, specifically in the Jewish community, sent me into a deep depression, worried that I would never be comfortable in my own skin or accept who I was. Friends constantly saying “that’s so gay” or “you’re such a faggot”, not realizing that they were severely hurting me every time they said it. I’d say that was the hardest part.
Beacon: How did you decide to come out? How did people respond?
Ely: A friend told me right before my 21st birthday that it was impossible to be religious and gay, to which I responded, “Says who?” I realized then that the only way for me to find inner peace was to accept who I was, and come out so I felt others would know who I was as well. It started with telling my parents, who were a bit surprised but knew I had been struggling with this. I just don’t think they ever expected to hear me actually say it. I then told a few friends and, as most things in the Orthodox community, word spread faster than I could have imagined. People at YU began to whisper, call me “the gay kid” and some friends stopped talking to me altogether. But overall, I knew that my real friends supported me and was so thankful. I just tried to ignore any negativity.
Beacon: What was your experience in YU like after you came out? Were people supportive, antagonistic…? What about your rabbis?
Ely: At Yeshiva University specifically, I was met with mostly acceptance by my peers- although behind my back I knew of many people questioning who I was and wondering “how dare he try to change Orthodoxy,” which was obviously never my intention. In running for student government, my campaign signs were defaced with the slur “fag” on many of them, and a petition was circulated to prevent my election to the student council. However, the petition was quickly suppressed and the office of student affairs, in particular Dr. Vic Schwartz, really had my back with these horrific acts of hate.
I came out to my Rabbi at YU after I had come out to my friends and family, and figured I could build another relationship and role model. And I did. This man- a very religious and respected Rabbi in the YU community, albeit younger than most on campus- was the most supportive a Rabbi could be- especially given that I didn’t come to him for support specifically, just to have another close Rabbi in my life. His first response was “Wow, I can’t believe someone in your shoes is still in my shiur, learning daily and walking around as a religious Jew.” He was awed and inspired by ME! He continued to hear my story and became a tremendous ally over my next few years on campus. He did what he could to support my right to exist in the Orthodox community as a gay man.
Beacon: What do you think is the most important thing you accomplished in YU?
Ely: Personally, I think the most important thing I accomplished on campus was being elected President of the Stone Beit Medrash Program. Despite those against my campaign, despite running against two other student and despite my being openly gay, the student body still chose me as fit to represent their Jewish studies program, which not only made me feel extremely proud, but also helped me recognize that tolerance is not just a dream at YU, but can be a reality. In addition, I knew that my election had begun to facilitate conversation in YU and in the Orthodox world in general about homosexuality, and laid groundwork for the gay panel that occurred a few months later.
Beacon: Why did you decide to remain part of the Orthodox community? Was there ever a time when you considered leaving it all behind?
Ely: My senior year of high school I resigned myself to leaving Orthodoxy as soon as I had the independence and means of doing so. I was simply frustrated and too claustrophobic to remain in a community that seemed to reject me. However, my year and a half in Israel taught me that my relationship with God was mine to develop, not any one else’s to decide what community I did or did not belong in. Further, I realized my relationship with God was not to the exclusion of my sexuality, but rather was about me as a whole person- including the dissonance of Orthodoxy and sexuality. With this in mind, I was able to build a relationship with God that included Orthodox practice and included my sexuality- and knew that no one could tell me what community I did or did not belong in.
Beacon: If there was one thing you could make sure the entire Orthodox community will know, what would that be?
Ely: That being gay is not a choice. It’s not something I ever wished for, and not something I strive to push on anyone who is uncomfortable with it.
There are so many more things I could say, but I guess this is the most important one.
Beacon: Do you have any piece of advice you want to give to gay Orthodox teens?
Ely: Not to let others dictate who they are or how they should feel. Regardless of communal pressure, familial pressures, and all the stresses in the world, every single person is an individual, and has the right to be who they are. Because in ten years, the same people making fun of them now will either have grown up enough to understand or not be in their lives any longer, so what they say really can’t define who a person is.